• I Hate GarryAnalytics
    25 replies, posted
I recently found out about GarryAnalytics in the patch notes for 4/30/19. After further research, I was quite disgusted. It turns out that this is spyware, how could you do this to us FacePunch!? it basically gives them access to what you say via mic, and reports it back to a sever. I'm quite frankly disappointed in Gmod at the moment.
You don't know how to read. EXTREME TL;DR MODE ENGAGED: They can store arbitrary information about your PC like what programs you have installed, how often / when you use Facepunch services ( like play Gmod ), your PC specs, IP address, MAC address, etc. This information is stored as long as you continue to use their services ( play Gmod ) but you can contact them to request the information be deleted and no further information be recorded from that point forth You don't own the game, you can't resell the game or distribute its contents, you can't modify their services ( Gmod ) in ways the product does not natively allow ( glorified legalese for "Don't fucking fuck up our game to pirate it or cheat" ) They cannot access information such as what your chat contents are on Steam nor information about your in-game chat or other similar "personal" information, and anything similarly along those lines. Nothing about your chats, either it be through text or voice, is ever touched. What they gather is no different from what even Steam itself and thousands of other games, many of which you likely play, collect. The only difference is that the opt-out is a little different. Nothing is hidden. The privacy policy changes are displayed in easy to understand terms. They are also shown to you the first time you start the game with the update applied. Stop panicking.
From Facepunch's TOS: This document explains who we are, what the Facepunch Services are and how you can use them. This Agreement is binding as soon as you download, install or use any of the Facepunch Services, including Garry’s Mod and Rust. We can change this Agreement at any time, but if we do we will put the changed version online and normally it will take effect a reasonable time period afterwards. You should also read our Privacy Policy (www.facepunch.com/legal/) and other Facepunch Services may have other applicable documents (which we will notify to you). ix. Conduct. do or say anything unlawful, racist, harassing, threatening, abusive, hateful, xenophobic, sexist, discriminatory, abusive, defamatory, obscene, invasive of the privacy of another person or otherwise offensive. This includes in any chat or other communications with users. Facepunch reserves the right to monitor the content of any of your messages and prevent your use of any such chat or other communication systems for any reason. Really makes it seem like they're going to monitor everything said in Garry's Mod like Big Brother and punish you if you say anything they deem offensive. I hope that's not the case, especially when servers have been owned, paid for, and ran by different communities with their own rules for the last 12 years.
Since Rust is covered in the entire thing, I'm assuming this only covers Rust and their official servers, not community ran servers for either game. Perhaps it could stand to be worded a little better to clarify that, if it isn't already and we both missed it.
does this guy not know how game voice chat works
I don't think you read it fully either. Facepunch defines "Facepunch Services" as 1.2. Which services does this Privacy Policy apply to? All of our video games (e.g. Garry’s Mod and Rust), our websites, user accounts, customer and technical support, official forums, wikis, blogs, social media services and other products and services - “Facepunch Services” for short. Now when looking at their privacy policy 2.1. What information might we collect from you? When you sign up for, download, use or play the Facepunch Services then we will collect certain information from you. The information that we collect varies depending on the particular Facepunch Services used, but this may include: A. Technical Details. When you use, play or access the Facepunch Services we or third parties on our behalf may collect technical details about the device you are using, including: internet and/or network connection (including IP address); MAC address, any console device identifier; device events; your operating system, browser type/language or other software; and your hardware or other technical details. B. Your Activities. When you use, play or access the Facepunch Services we or third parties on our behalf may collect details of how you use our services, including: metrics information about when and how you use the services; date and time of request and referral URL; traffic data; language preferences; in-game purchases; achievements; scores; gameplay statistics; time spent playing; and your geographical location data. C. Your Communications. If you contact us (e.g. via email or call for customer support) or post in chat sessions, forums or other areas of the Facepunch Services, we may collect and maintain a record of your contact details and the content of your communications. This vague wording covers both text and voice 100%. It also means this could apply to gmod and any of facepunch's games. However, that's not known due to the 1st sentence I've bolded. There's a possibility, but no one knows for sure what data for gmod is collected other than facepunch themselves. There's the possibility that facepunch isn't collecting communication data at all on gmod, but maybe later on they will simply due to the fact that the data they collect can change. Obviously I'll acknowledge that you can request your data to be deleted and along with that, you can choose to stop using Facepunch and its services, but saying something like "They are also shown to you the first time you start the game with the update applied." is terrible since by opening gmod after April 30th, you've agreed to the new changes put into effect. Majority of players don't pay attention to these things, but hey, gotta them analytics.
Perhaps you're right, but I sincerely doubt this is going to be used maliciously like so many people are panicking over. If chats are going to be used at all, it's likely going to only be used for purposes of an actual crime being committed somewhere, much like Discord's ToS over using what's said in a given server, which reads in much a similar way, IIRC. I don't think they'd be stupid enough- or even have enough manpower to boot- to monitor every server's (official or non) chat and mic chat and send in the wee-woos because someone said the N word or called another a poo head or anything else that'd be a waste of time focusing on. Otherwise I'm sure until it's needed for legal reasons, no human eyes will even so much as touch it. Steam also has similar in their privacy statement, albeit not implying they'd use it to bring in the wee-woos. But it still is implied that anything you say to someone over Steam chat is recorded. 3.3 Other Data You Explicitly Submit We will collect and process Personal Data whenever you explicitly provide it to us or send it as part of communication with others on Steam, e.g. in Steam Community Forums, chats, or when you provide feedback or other user generated content. This data includes: Information that you post, comment or follow in any of our Content and Services; Information sent through chat; Information you provide when you request information or support from us or purchase Content and Services from us, including information necessary to process your orders with the relevant payment merchant or, in case of physical goods, shipping providers; Information you provide to us when participating in competitions, contests and tournaments or responding to surveys, e.g. your contact details. Also what I mean by it being shown to you when you start the game, I mean the privacy policy update has to be agreed to before the game even starts via a Steam pop-up. If you decline, the game doesn't launch. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/2014/aab67fc2-3d13-464c-8fd7-745132377766/image.png Strictly speaking, the part of the ToS everyone is focusing on, I think existed before this GameAnalytics thing ever came out for Gmod. So why are people only freaking out now? You don't need a game analytics tool to record activity in a given game. Technically they could've been doing this the whole time and nobody was ever the wiser.
What's the issue here? The forums are recorded - everyone knows this. Discord keeps logs. Etc. Third-party server hosts do not have a contractual relationship with Facepunch Services and are not part of Facepunch Services and therefore this would not apply to them. Because if Facepunch decided to record the chats of every server on Gmod/RUST, including password protected servers, some serious shit would go down eventually.
Considering the GMod devs can't even be arsed to modify voice chat to get data like volume serverside, I have serious doubts they're monitoring it.
Maybe Garry has weird fetish, who knows...
Why are certain people so anal about this privacy shit inside a what? 12-14 year old game about building shit? It's so ridiculous that people are getting upset about it. But hey that's just my opinion.
The source-code for the GameAnalytics SDK is here: GitHub. Garry's Mod only uses the following functions: configureBuild, configureUserId, initialize, setEnabledManualSessionHandling, gameAnalyticsStartSession, gameAnalyticsEndSession.
They store your chat logs so the conversations from the last 2 weeks can be displayed in either the new Friends client, phone apps and the community website and then it is deleted.
grug no like privacy policy why so many word what evil chinese corporation hiding seriously though, why does everyone think that every bit of analytics tracker is some unholy spyware that's gonna let the monitoring company send a swat team to their house because they personally don't like who they're collecting info on? has there even been a case yet where any sort of analytics tracker actually collects more than the bare minimum information to at most identify you?
On a public server? Could care less. All chat is monitored on a public server anyway. The server host can see everything. And since every player can record clips you kinda have to be under the assumption voice chat is recorded as well. Private servers are another story. Conversations on those servers - voice or chat - can be deeply personal and private and Facepunch has no business recording them.
i love garryanalitics ll;'jh
If you decline EULA then don't play gmod.
who the hell boots up a private gmod server to have a deeply personal and private conversation
Like, you know, family members for one. GMOD sure is a nice way to play with the kids if you're traveling for any reason. Or it could just be a family thing in the house. Doesn't really matter what the reason is. If you think those conversations won't contain deeply personal information you're deluding yourself. Then you have online relationships to deal with. You think people making sex doll poses on the forums is a weird as it gets on GMOD? Think again. Oh, and then you have legitimate employees, executives, ceos etc using gmod as stress relief and they do discuss business related matters on private servers. Trust me on this one, since I've seen it happen during my time volunteering, working for and running server hosts. But that's not just limited to gmod either, seen it on minecraft and other servers. (And no, I wasn't spying - was invited into the servers and conversations). I think the weirdest one for me was playing TF2 with over a dozen Limestone Networks employees.
https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/1123264680619802635 Someone asked him about the analytics stuff, read the whole tweet chain.
You're getting disagreement with this because you literally jsut paraphrased "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." but in a more condescending manner. For reference, that argument against privacy advocates is utter bullshit in the first place because people have plenty of things to keep private even when they're doing nothing wrong. Tax records, voting records, medical records, ID information, etc. And while a game may be an unusual place for a private conversation to happen, it's far from unheard of. I don't know what exact information FPS is taking here but private conversations is totally out of the question. If nothing else they need an opt-out option in the settings somewhere.
I wasn't trying to say that people have nothing to hide, but everyone just gets so outraged over this kinda stuff it's ridiculous. Anyway, if this new EULA is a big threat to (non-specific you) your private conversations getting out, just don't use it to have those conversations anymore. This brand new window pops up in front of your face since the update, so it's pretty hard to miss it. They also state No information security system is perfect so please remember to be careful. (PP 3.Summary) But if the conversations being leaked isn't the main concern, and instead is Facepunch employees collecting this information and using it to blackmail or whatever, then yeah it becomes more of an issue, but then I think you'd have a legal case. Other than that, your opt-out is to not use the service, just like literally every other Terms of Service and Privacy Policy on the wide open web. In fact, I guarantee that if you actually delve into the ToS and PP of any other service, you'd dig up some shady stuff that you're not so happy with (Discord's "you can't sue us" comes to mind). Yes, theoretically there is no reason for Facepunch, of all companies, to collect and monitor what is said in their game. However, do we have to explode when there's some new "tracker" implemented in any kind of software? Of course we have the right to be angry and skeptical of these kinds of policies, but do we really have to take to a public forum to voice how much we hate it? While it's a very different case in terms of what's collected, the same thing happened with the EGS. Won't we learn something from all of these pointless outrages? Also, reviewing the EULA itself, it claims that Facepunch reserves the right to monitor the content of any of your messages and prevent your use of any such chat or other communication systems for any reason. (ToS 3.ix) Does that not mean only that they can do it if there's a just reason to do so? (Bit of an intermission, looking through the thread from TheMrFailz's post https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/1123574880472059905 Just figured that'd be something to include.) Does anyone know what happened with the online Cards Against Humanity site, Pretend You're Xyzzy? Someone apparently planned some crime or something on the platform, and the government went after the site, but the site had no records of anything. Everything got so hot, the guy decided to shut the whole site down for a bit of time. In summary, just like most other legal documents implemented into systems that don't need them, it seems more likely that this will mainly serve as a "cover-our-ass" type of thing instead of any sort of self-permitting stalking contract.
Why should I even let this Analytics thing collect anything? I bought a copy of Garry's mod years ago as a PRODUCT! not a service
When we were still doing things long distance, my better half and I used Gmod as a way to hang out. Sometimes we'd actually play the game, other times we'd abuse the PlayX addon to watch TV. This is how I discovered I quite liked Mobile Suit Gundam, amongst a few other shows.
Since you are so knowledgeable about the topic, can you provide us with the contact information here in this thread so that we can all make such a request?
Submit a request – Facepunch Studios Or emails: support@facepunch.com legal@facepunch.com (the more likely one) Both of which are listed in the privacy statement and ToS. Might as well say this while I'm here, I go back on a few things I've said in this thread now that I realize how redundant the service being used is, and just how much info that it says it records could be sending to bad actors. I apologize for my behavior in trying to justify these things, if I knew more at the time, I would have not said that. I should have waited until I had more information on my plate before I jumped to conclusions, I'm just as much at fault as those I accused for doing the same thing. I'm sorry.
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